Anchormen Ep33 The Church-Larry and Randy Wright Pt.1

What is the church? 

Has the church changed and how? What are some of the significant changes and how do you feel the changes have affected the people that attend the churches in and around the US and the world?

Larry Wright and Randy Wright, yes they are related, join us this week and next for a two part conversation on the changes that occurred in the church in just the last 50 years and how the Church has changed because of the culture changing. Is that good or bad.

Our conversation is strictly our opinions and definitely not based on any facts or beliefs that the church says is right or wrong. 

This whole podcast is just three guys and guests sometimes sitting at a table and having casual conversations about what we believe the Bible and Jesus teaches. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:08

In our walk with God, we often experience moments when our faith is tested. It's in these times that we truly discover what it means to be anchored in faith. Our faith is like a sturdy ship anchored in the harbor. It keeps us grounded when the waves of life toss us around. When we lean on God and His Word, we find the strength to persevere and trust in His plans. They anchormen remind us weekly that Jesus is our anchor, providing stability and insurance in the midst of uncertainty. Together, let's dive deeper into the powerful words that encourage us to hold fast to the faith in Jesus alone and not rely on our good words to be in righteousness. Let you lead the conversation. Let the Holy Spirit, as he's in this room, lead this conversation for us. We ask you to be with Randy as he's on his way. And also be with us as we continue. Jesus' name we pray. Amen. Amen. Alright, one of the subject matters we wanted to talk about was about the church. And we really were thinking about the greatest way or the greatest person that has the most years in the church is you, Larry. And we thought what a great way to get a little bit of insight of how the church has changed.

SPEAKER_03 2:30

But first, let's talk about what led us there. And that was we started thinking about a lot of people that don't normally go to church that wind up going on Easter. And the whole reason why we wound up talking about this was because John played hooky on Easter Sunday and didn't go to church. But it we just got into a little bit of a discussion about that, and we know that you know you don't have to go to church. Um, but then that started us down that path of the benefits of church. What do you what do you get out, etc. etc. And so we thought, you know what, that'd be a good topic for us, right?

SPEAKER_01 3:11

Yeah, and and just kind of back up a little bit and why I didn't go to church. I know Easter message is all about the resurrection, which is gonna kind of we're gonna touch on that topic today a little bit, maybe. But if we don't, we don't. But I know the message. I've heard the message a hundred thousand times, and it's not a bad thing to hear it again, kind of as a reminder, we know that. But I thought I'm gonna experience more than just regular my regular church service. So I listened to three other services that morning, and then Monday morning I listened to another one, and uh I think I was very fulfilled. Although I didn't have the camaraderie in the building with everybody else, I I felt uh the Holy Spirit was with me.

SPEAKER_03 4:04

And and I could tell you from my perspective, we wound up going out by the lake house to um church, and it was probably the worst Easter service that I've ever been to. Um I thought that our pastor out that way was very unprepared. It doesn't, it didn't seem like he put much time or effort into it, and I was really disappointed because to me, that is the one church service that they always talk about. Bring somebody new, bring somebody new. And to have an overflowing service and to have a message that I I know, and I told my wife this, I know I could have got up there and just winged it, and I could have given a better message than what he had done. And I was just very disappointed. And my wife did admit, she said, I do admit though, that that was not a very good message at all. And uh, but on the other side, we got to see people we hadn't seen since last fall, you know, that that are at that other church that we go to, and so it was nice from a fellowship and camaraderie standpoint, and the kids still had you know a good time at church as well. So, and I know that we're gonna touch on all of that.

SPEAKER_02 5:32

I would uh just point out that uh at Calvary uh we did have four services, right? Sorry, you must all four, John. Um, but uh I understand we had about 3,000 people there. Nice. I personally had 13 of my family members there. Wow, which was good, including six great-grandchildren.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

Now, does that include the were you here for Thanksgiving or for Easter? Were you here for the service? Yeah. Okay, I didn't know if you were still down in Florida.

SPEAKER_02 5:57

Yeah, I got back uh Friday, uh good Friday evening. Oh, okay, all right. So uh but uh then uh Todd, in response to your comment about watered down messages, uh I would uh think that uh in some sense they realize that they're they're ministering to people who have probably not been in church at all. So some of it is actually watered down a little bit for trying to communicate to those people because it maybe goes out.

SPEAKER_03 6:23

I don't think it was watered down though. I just think it was a really bad message. Gotcha. Yeah, and and it just I mean, it's something that like I wouldn't even say, hey Larry, just listen to it and tell me what your thoughts are. I wouldn't want you to waste your time. Gotcha. It was just uh it just didn't have anything to it, to where I I understand that it's more geared towards the newer non-believers, and that's where I thought that they missed the mark really bad. It wasn't even good for that.

SPEAKER_02 6:51

Gotcha. Yeah, I I get it, yeah. Very good.

SPEAKER_01 6:54

Which service did you go to?

SPEAKER_02 6:56

I went to the uh 945 service.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

It was pretty crowded, I heard. It's really bad. It was, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:01

Some new people, and uh yeah, it was uh it was good, busy.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

So one of the questions that I really was wanting to ask was over the years, we know Christmas and Easter, you're gonna get your your typical people that come twice or once or twice a year. But how has that changed over the years in the uh in the not saying the early church because we don't know how the early church was, it was it wasn't a building. They used to meet in people's homes or even outside, I would imagine. But you know, in the fifty years ago. I mean, I don't recall I was going to a Catholic church at the time. I don't recall the specifics of the Easter, except you know, you go to typical blessings and the uh sprinkling or whatever it was, and I don't remember the procedure, but it's so different now than what it used to be. Now, your background, Larry, is not a Catholic background.

SPEAKER_02 8:07

Correct. It's fundamentalistic.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

You're a fundamentalist. A Baptist church, okay. So how would you describe the an Easter or yeah, an Easter service at the Baptist church compared to what we witnessed Sunday?

SPEAKER_02 8:25

I don't know that there's a lot of change in that. Um the uh the message is uh always about the resurrection and fulfillment of that. Um the um I think overall the the uh strategy that we used for the service has changed radically.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

In which way?

SPEAKER_02 8:47

Well, about everything about it, except that God hasn't changed and the message hasn't changed. Okay. But uh look at uh the overall ministry, uh everything from uh dress code. I mean, back in those days, uh everyone uh wore a suit and a tie, the ladies wore dresses. Uh actually slacks were not even alumni wore didn't use slacks. Even my mother, when she was working in the garden, was wearing a dress.

SPEAKER_03 9:14

Yeah, yeah. So I didn't know did anybody for thinking back that that far, did did did the pastors did they say something to people when they didn't, or was it just one of those things where nope, mom and dad just got dressed up and told us what to wear, so we just wore it, and they probably did because their parents told them the same thing. Was it one of those or did the pastors actually say something if you didn't?

SPEAKER_02 9:40

No, uh, I don't recall a pastor ever uh was it seen was it seen as disrespectful? It was uh almost stellar practice, you know, it was just uh and uh so if I I did wear a suit and a tie on Sunday at Calvert and uh I was one of the few. Uh but uh uh if you do that now with cultural with all the cultural changes, uh you'd be uh kind of out of place. But then uh it was not so a lot of things the formality has really changed significantly.

SPEAKER_01 10:15

Uh how do you feel about that in in general?

SPEAKER_02 10:18

Well, there's a lot of good in it. I think there's some people that are more comfortable there. Uh maybe we had a little bit too much show in the process instead of the set of spirit. Um I there's parts about it that bother me. Um like uh if the ushers wear Bermuda shorts to take up the offering. Uh that bothers me, but I'm a little old school on that, so that's just me, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

Well, well, at at Calvary, they don't even ask for offering anything. Well, that's another change. That's another change, yeah. But that came in because of COVID, too.

SPEAKER_02 10:55

So you go down the list, uh music has changed drastically. I mean, back in those days, uh the accepted instruments was a piano and organ.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

Right.

SPEAKER_02 11:05

And that was we didn't do you know performances, so it's solo.

SPEAKER_01 11:10

I love the way he put it though. It's a performance, right? It becomes a show or a performance.

SPEAKER_02 11:16

And I think that's important. I don't have a problem with that. I love the choir. Uh my wife and family's always active in the choir. Uh, but uh I uh I see the reason for the transition, which started happening about 25 years ago, I'm gonna say, 20, 25 years ago, uh, where the choir suddenly disappeared, uh, the worship teams began to take charge. Uh very good. I love it. We sing praise songs instead of the old rugged cross as an example.

SPEAKER_01 11:50

But there's a good place for the old rugged cross, yeah. I I kind of miss that.

SPEAKER_02 11:54

Yeah, I do too, but that's me. Yeah. But the younger generation, I think, uh, would not uh be comfortable with that.

SPEAKER_03 12:02

You know, I I not only miss it, but I thoroughly enjoyed it because it's sort of like when you go to the to the banquet. I love listening to the voices sing instead of the music being too loud. I love hearing worship. I love hearing people um worshiping to Jesus and the God by hearing their voices and lifting their voices up, versus now the music's so loud, yeah. You hear the voices, but they're sort of muffled in the background. And uh for me it's not a true worship experience like it used to be.

SPEAKER_02 12:37

And um successful churches have transitioned into that, and uh uh it uh it's it's a loss. Uh I enjoy a good choir. Uh some of the uh programs on TV that uh, as you know, one of my fans, uh David Jeremiah and Robert Jeffries, if you catch them and catch their part, they'll have like probably at least 50 people in a live orchestra, probably at least a hundred people in the choir.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

Yeah, but that doesn't happen every week.

SPEAKER_02 13:07

Well, depending on what time you listen, you know. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's uh the normal 30 su 30-minute service is uh is just uh you know uh ministry, but right. If you get the one hour service, you get the full amount of it, which is wonderful. So I miss that when we have um, you know, um some churches still do a uh Easter, uh like a pageant, a Christmas pageant, stuff like that. Right. And uh those are great. Uh Liberty Bible, I think, is one of the ones that still does have an active choir in it, but those are what worth going to. So music has changed. So I think what I see about it is that uh uh the churches who have not transitioned to contemporary church worship style, dress code, music, etc. Uh many of those churches are not surviving. I have friends who got left behind who have actually had to close the doors because uh they've held tight to tradition. So when I look around and I see um the uh younger people in church and I see them worshiping, they're not looking at their watch. They're they're really into it, they're worshiping God. And so I can put my personal preferences in the background to the know to realizing that my my children and my grandchildren and my great-grandchildren, they're in church and they're enjoying it, they're worshipping.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

And so what's fascinating because you know when I grew up, well, when I first became my my first uh experience with the Christian church was a Presbyterian church, and they're very traditional, really were. And to make a fact about what you said, they didn't resist, they sent resisted so much change, they ended up closing the doors because they wouldn't change. Uh now there is a church, I don't know if you know this or not, there's a church up on 6 and 49 that has three services on Sunday. Or it's either two or three, but the very first early service is a traditional service. And then they do a more modern service, second and third services. I didn't know that, and I've never gone, I don't know what kind of church it is, but it's up on six and forty-nine.

SPEAKER_03 15:22

And I thought, man, that might be interesting to I know where they are. It's on the uh southeast of uh there because um the kids had their program last year there, and that's where Braxton got sick up on stage.

SPEAKER_02 15:36

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_03 15:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:38

Well, I'm familiar with a church that went through uh uh a change like that, and so they felt the need to have a uh contemporary uh service. So um they would have that first, and then so what happened is that uh the uh the old the people that the numbers of them that were going to the to the uh traditional service was now not attended as well. Many of those were trying to so yeah so all of a sudden these people were feeling left out. So it it actually uh I don't know what the end result of that was, right? But it was uh became an issue because uh that uh by taking those away from the others, you lose the the togetherness.

SPEAKER_03 16:19

Yeah, you know, on the other hand, here's here's what I also know comes into play with that, because I remember something happened at our church years ago that I was told. So the most of the churches where the elderly people of the church are also the main givers of money and tithe to the church, and so if they don't like something, they'll go to the pastor and say, Hey, yeah, I don't like this loud music. I I'd like to hear you know at least one old hymn included with that, because I know our church changed that at one point in time for a little bit where they did, you know, have uh a hymn, an old hymn included in there. And uh it's just some people don't like the change, and then as a pastor, you have to try to find a delicate balance because if somebody's a main tither and is giving you a hundred thousand or hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, you sort of gotta listen to them too.

SPEAKER_02 17:26

It's amazing how we have gone through significant cultural change in all aspects of life, not just church. Right. And um, I can remember uh when I used to wear a tie to as a work as an engineer in the in and steel industry. And I remember when uh 40 years ago, the guy that came over to that, he declared a blue jeans day. So literally, so he said since then on Friday, everybody is uh casual Friday, right? Yeah, yeah, I remember that. So that was the beginning of some of the transition. So I think we have to realize that uh that we are in the midst of some significant cultural change, yeah. We have to be sensitive that we can't lose the next generation just because of our preferences. Right, right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:15

Uh Randy, how have you witnessed any changes in the church as far as traditions from when you were younger from when you are now?

SPEAKER_00 18:24

Uh my main thoughts on that is that uh years ago when we go to church and stuff, it was more uh on the brimstone and fire style. You know, I did go to a Christian church. I didn't really go to a Baptist church, but I had uh visited quite a few of them. And today it's more smoothed out on both sides. It's like they're missing a part of it to me, that they're not doing some of the the stronger messages just because they don't want people to hurt people's feelings, you know. I mean, I feel that God would provide the means and the people, you know, you don't have to strictly humor everybody. Right. You know, you do need to get his message across too, that you know, yeah, he is all loving, but he's also got a strict side to him too.

SPEAKER_02 19:21

I think what Patabus saying, you know, you have to have balance. Um it's possible they were probably overdoing all the preaching about uh sin and damnation and hell and so forth, uh, to a to a degree, and we probably swung the puddle a little bit too far the other way, perhaps now. So we uh but there's beer does require balance. It's there and it needs to be the truth needs to be spoken because actually I think uh scriptural says that uh Jesus actually uh spoke more about hell in the scripture. If you look at uh then I I guess I'll combine the Old Testament new than it did about heaven. So that's something you can work on.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

Yeah. I want to thank Larry and Randy for being here today. We're gonna stop and pause right now and pick this up next week in part two of The Church with Larry and Randy Wright. Thank you guys both for being here today, and uh, thank your audience for listening to us this week. Hope to catch you next week in part two of The Church with Larry and Randy Wright. Thank you for listening to Anchorman Anchored by Grace Podcast. Please share, like, and listen each week right here on our website or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. Subscribe to our podcast and never miss a new episode. Reach out to us at AnchoredBy Grace at Duck.com. Thank you again from John, Bob, and Todd, your anchormen, Anchored by Grace.