Anchormen Ep37 Music with Chuck Mudd

Music in the Church is a normal occurrence, is the music in the church enhancing the experience or are we just being entertained each week and we attend with entertainment expectations?

Todd and John are joined with worship musician Chuck Mudd as we explore the history of music in the worship experience and how it's changed over the years.

What are some of the options for the future of worship music in the church, if any?

Where do you stand on the worship music experience in the church services. We'd love to hear your feedback on this so feel free to reach out to us through our website or through our Facebook page at Anchormen Anchored by Grace. 

Thanks for you feedback and mostly for listening to our podcast.

Reach out to the Anchormen by emailing us at anchoredbygrace@duck.com.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:09

In our walk with God, we often experience moments when our faith is tested. It's in these times that we truly discover what it means to be anchored in faith. Our faith is like a sturdy ship anchored in the harbor. It keeps us grounded when the waves of life toss us around. When we lean on God and His Word, we find the strength to persevere and trust in His plans. The anchormen remind us weekly that Jesus is our anchor, providing stability and insurance in the midst of uncertainty. Together, let's dive deeper into the powerful words that encourage us to hold fast in the faith of Jesus alone and not rely on our good works to gain righteousness. Today we've got another guest, of course, an Hall of Fame guest. Chuck Mudd is with us today. How about it? Evening, gentlemen. Well, welcome everybody. Hey, Todd's here, I'm here, and Chuck's here. We've got an interesting subject today. We've talked about this before on an old podcast, if you remember Huddle Up Podcast. But this one is uh a different angle. We're gonna talk about it with Chuck Mudd, about music in the church. Some of the changes in our feelings, our opinions about music in the church. I'm gonna start us off with a word of prayer. But uh dear Heavenly Father, thank you for this time that we have today. Thank you for this uh this opportunity to sit with Chuck around this table and just talk about you and uh what music means to you. And there's many Bible verses we can relate to, which we probably will. But Lord, we ask you to uh just direct our talk and direct our hearts. Jesus' name, amen. Alright, so I'm gonna start out with uh first thing is Colossians three. So this is all New Testament stuff. It says, Let the word of Christ dwell richly among you, in all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another through psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, singing to God with gratitude in your hearts. I think that's a good intro to what we're gonna talk about today.

SPEAKER_01 2:57

It was a good one. Was that it is a good one, I agree with you on that.

SPEAKER_02 3:01

There's so much. I mean, the Old Testament, New Testament, I think music was a huge part in uh the Christian walk or the the Old Testament and New Testament, always been. So, Chuck, I'm gonna let you start out with what's your opinion on how the Old Testament identifies with music? The Old Testament, not the New Testament, the Old Testament.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

Yeah, yeah, the Old Testament. I mean, as I recall, the Old Testament, they used to send the musicians out when they were going into battle. The musicians went before everyone, preparing the way for the warriors to go and fight the enemy, whoever the enemy was. Um I think if you look through there, it was vitally important in those situations. Uh, we have David writing the Psalms. He was a musician.

SPEAKER_02 3:52

Um He was a heart player, right?

SPEAKER_01 3:54

Yeah, yeah. He was uh heart player, and um Saul wanted him to sing to him all the time. Exactly, yeah, because it it made Saul calm them. I mean, obviously it I would say it brought him, you know, the Holy Spirit closer to him. It didn't necessarily live in him back in those days, but I think music paved the way for the Holy Spirit to calm Saul. Um as I said, David with all the psalms, those were all songs that he wrote, praising God and and you know, asking God a lot of times, hey, you know, I'm in a real bad spot here, God help me out. I I don't know what to do, you know.

SPEAKER_02 4:33

And I I don't know. I've you play an instrument, Chuck. Um how do you feel when you're playing that instrument? Is it relaxing to you?

SPEAKER_01 4:41

It's uh yeah, I mean, I don't know how else to describe it. It is relaxing, but it's almost like I shut out the rest of the world, man. It's just me and the bass at that point. I'm listening. If I'm in a a band situation, I'm listening to the other musicians, and it's just like I'm on another another plane at that point. I don't know how else to describe it. Sort of like when a train goes by. Sort of like when a train goes by, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 5:06

Train and a guitar, man, I'd you'd be in the seventh heaven.

SPEAKER_01 5:09

It's music and trains, I don't know what else, guys. But yeah, it is. It's um and there's it it's a God-given talent because it's been in me for my whole life, you know? And um it it is, it's like I go to another place spiritually, and it's because I'm using that talent to glorify Christ. Yeah, yeah, and it is another place spiritually, in all honesty.

SPEAKER_02 5:36

It fulfills you, yet you're fulfilling somebody else's exactly. Uh I'm not saying fulfilling anything, but you're speaking to them in the in the music or song. Yeah, yeah. Todd, what's your what's your opinion on Old Testament music?

SPEAKER_00 5:55

Um I think we'd have to ask Larry Wright and Dr. Run since they were there back then. But um my perspective and just what I've re-read, and um, you know, it's quite interesting because you know, we were just talking about David, and um my wife and I have been watching the series of David, and uh it's just interesting to see the interactions. Um, and most of it is pretty accurate biblical stuff, you know, in there, but it even gives you the you know, the verbiage in the front that some of this stuff may not be depicted from the actual Bible, and it was made for the series, etc. But um, you know, to to see how much Saul appreciated David, and also I think sort of what Chuck was just relating to himself, you could perceive that from the series as well with David, where David, I think, used it to relax himself as well, and got lost in it.

SPEAKER_02 7:08

We're at in the Old Testament, there were like you mentioned to Chuck that Saul wanted David there, just and David would come with his harp and he would just play just to relax Saul.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

Correct.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

But was it Saul that called David and he he threw a spear at him, chucked a spear at him when he was playing his harp?

SPEAKER_01 7:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:30

No, I've never had that happen to me. And it wasn't because it was bad music, right? Right. Well, we don't know. Maybe it was. Maybe. Maybe he meant maybe he had a out-of-tune harp or something.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

You know what? When you're out of tune like that or you hit a bad note, it's a jazz note, man. Come on.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

That's a good perspective to to think about with uh there's uh in Psalm 22, uh, you know, like the title of it says, A cry of anguish and a song of praise. And it says, For the music director, upon Igeleth, Heshas, a Psalm of David. And it starts out, My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Far from my help are the words of my groaning. My God, I cry out to you by day, but you do not answer, and by night I have no rest. And then the third line says, Yet you are holy, you who are enthroned upon the praises of Israel. And I just I like that. I like how that all forms from a praise and music and current modern day.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

There's somebody out there that put psalms to music, didn't they? I hear that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

Yes, to help you memorize it because it's easier to memorize from by music than it is just reading.

SPEAKER_02 8:52

Now, what was uh the we know what the harp is, but what was a lyra? Was it like a guitar?

SPEAKER_01 8:58

It was like a guitar. Was it? Yeah, I think it was a 10-string guitar. Oh really?

SPEAKER_02 9:02

I was about I think it was okay. Because I was just kind of wondering, that was one of the early instruments too, wasn't it? Was a lyra.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

You see a lot of that in the in the Bible, yeah, the on the lyre. Lyre, is that how they call it?

SPEAKER_02 9:14

Pronounce it? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that would be interesting to hear what that what that was. Well, I'm gonna tell you. Well, tell me, please.

SPEAKER_00 9:21

According to the Bible, David famously played the harp or lyre, or lyre, often referred to in Hebrew as a kinor or neville, to soothe King Saul. As a skilled musician, he was brought to the place to play, which eased the king's spirit. His instrument was a portable stringed instrument, often associated with worship and poetry. So it says a harp or lyre.

SPEAKER_02 9:48

Okay. So now I know in before King David was playing his instruments, back in the uh Genesis era, when they came down from the mountains, there's another one.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

There's another group, Genesis.

SPEAKER_02 10:07

Invisible touch. So he so Moses comes down from the mountain and their party, and they've got parties going on. They got their calf and they're singing to the calf, their golden calf. And so, yeah, I don't know what they were just clanging rocks together or whatever, but obviously there was some kind of a music thing going on there, too. So it's amazing how it's changed so much from what it used to be. I can't imagine what it used to sound like or be like, but it was uh it was used for the same purposes like we use now.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

I think it would be, in my opinion, it would be a lot more personal and a lot more enjoyable because I think that the voices would be louder than the music. And I don't think that there's anything ever better than when you hear a bit a group of people together singing and hearing their voices lifted up.

SPEAKER_02 11:06

Well, there was a a battle that was go around the go around the city seven times. Correct. And the seventh day you go around, take your instruments, play your instruments. So that music had a part in the.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

Yeah, the frequency, the loudness, and the frequency brought the walls down.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

Yeah, yeah. So it's amazing. There was music is very intertwined with scripture. It is. And I I like that. So let's fast forward to the uh early days of music in the church. When I when I used to it when I grew up, it was only the piano or the organ. That was the only two I have ever had, other than a cappella, but very rarely was it a cappella. Now I don't know what what it would have been like. What was your experience, Chuck, in the early in the early days of church?

SPEAKER_01 11:59

Well, early days of church for me were adulthood. I was in my late twenties probably by the time I started going to church. Okay. And it was very contemporary like we see now. I mean, maybe not quite. I I went to a small church, so not the big production, but I mean it was, you know, if you had a drummer, you'd have drums, and if you had guitarists, you had guitars. You know, it was it was very contemporary.

SPEAKER_02 12:23

Yeah, okay, from back from then. Yeah. And that was in what, the nineties?

SPEAKER_01 12:27

Uh would have been early 2000s.

SPEAKER_02 12:29

2000s, okay. How about you, Todd? Uh Catholic Church, Oregon.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

Oregon and then listening to most of the priests with their humming up front and their chanting.

SPEAKER_02 12:41

Well, what about the uh what about the choir? Yeah, the choir there. Yeah. The only thing that's unique that I didn't like about being in a Catholic church with the choir singing, with with the ceilings being so tall and marble or whatever they're made out of, it echoed so bad. Yeah, you couldn't really even enjoy it.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

Yeah, I'm having flashbacks now. I'm I'm hearing the the priest up there going, throw them with the name of the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_02 13:21

Uh right, we don't want to make fun.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

But what's kind of scary is I didn't think I ever paid attention. I think it was just repetition. Repetition over and over again.

SPEAKER_02 13:32

Yeah, that's what it comes down to, repetition. Yeah. Yeah, but it was it's interesting how we we remember those kind of things. So then after my church, Catholic church years, I moved to um Hammond and I started going to a Presbyterian church. The Presbyterian church was basically piano organ and uh you can maybe get somebody to sing, or the whole group sings. But like you said, Todd, you hear the people singing more than you hear the instruments. How that's changed now. When did that change and why do you think it changed? That's what I want to ask.

SPEAKER_00 14:14

I I think that it changed probably 15, 20 years ago, and I think that they did it trying to attract more people to get a feeling, a good feeling, and that maybe by getting them in with the good feeling they could keep them and andor um then have them stay for the message because I remember when I first started going to our um our church that I go to now, I was very uncomfortable with the music because I hadn't grown up with that, and I wound up telling the uh lady that I was dating at the time, well, I'm not, you know, I'm not gonna come here for the music. I said, uh I just want to come for the message, and we would come in for the message, and then we were coming in late all the time, so everybody looked at you when you walked through the door, and I didn't like that attention, so we started going back for the music, and eventually I found myself humming the music in the car because I didn't know the words or the lyrics. Then eventually I'm like, you know what, if we're gonna go there, then I'm gonna learn that some of these words. And uh, I started to listen to Christian music then, and I've not turned back, and uh, it's been kind of interesting, but I can tell you from my perspective personally that the biggest change for me is is that before I used to sing and worship because of the good feeling that I got, but then as I got more into the word and understood, like what we talk about with the grace message and everything, I will only say the words if it's what I believe. Because most of what we read that we sing is about grace. It's just that when you get to the message, they switch it and add the meatball in and start talking about the other stuff. But um I actually pay attention to the words, and I really feel like I'm speaking to God now when I sing versus the way that I used to do it, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 16:32

Yeah, yeah. Isn't isn't it set up that that's what worship music is for? For us to worship and speak to sing to God. That's the way I think it's set up. That's how it's supposed to be. Yeah, yeah. Now, you're on the worship team at your church or just on the special teams?

SPEAKER_01 16:50

I was just on the special teams. Um right now I've got another band going, we're actually going out and doing some stuff. Okay. Anyway, yeah, I I've I've been on worship teams and um.

SPEAKER_02 17:02

Okay, so when so being on the worship team, tell me your perspective on picking the music for the Sunday message. Do you is it a is there a is there a reason they pick certain songs? Or is it just because it's familiarity? They just repeat the same songs over and over again. Or do they tie it in the session? Do they tie it into the message?

SPEAKER_01 17:24

Yeah, I mean, there are times that they do tie it into the message. Um a lot of times, unfortunately, it is familiarity. Well, we've played this song a lot, we know it pretty well, let's just throw it in there, it works. Okay. Um I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but it it's the musicians that are on worship teams, a lot of times, I mean, they're all volunteers, usually. Um you have different levels of ability. Okay. So a lot of times a familiar song that's really easy to get through, hey, let's throw it in there because we know we can get it done. You don't have to practice it. You don't really have to run through it very much, yeah, exactly. Exactly. And it, I mean, it's still praise and worship, it'll fit on a Sunday morning, right?

SPEAKER_02 18:06

Right. So what I've noticed at our church, it seemed like the first, there's always the same pattern. Three songs, the message, two songs, and that's it. I've noticed people after the message, they're standing up, walking out. Because I I usher at church, people are standing up, they're walking out, they're getting out of there. So, and then there's people that come in after the music starts, or after the music plays and the message starts, they walk in. When the message is done, they they bug out. So, is the choreographed music that they use and they practice during the week that they're not too familiar with? Is that the ones that get tied into the message? And then at the end, they just they're throwing in two extra songs at the end.

SPEAKER_01 18:56

Well, see, we do it a little bit different differently where I go, because we do all of our songs up front.

SPEAKER_02 19:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

It's the How many do you do typically? Uh one or two. Three or four? I want to say it's like five, probably. Wow. It's it's a little lengthy.

SPEAKER_02 19:11

Long long worse time.

SPEAKER_01 19:12

Yeah, yeah, it's a little bit more than most.

SPEAKER_02 19:14

Do you feel that sometimes it's too long?

SPEAKER_01 19:16

No, I do feel sometimes it's a little too loud. Believe it or not. Well, no, you're not the only one. Um no, I don't I don't, I mean, truthfully, no, I don't think it's too long. I you know, it the these songs are not terribly long to begin with. So I mean if you have four or five of them in a row, it's not that bad.

SPEAKER_00 19:33

There's different churches and different songs because I tell you what, I get worn out after the third song in ours usually, and I'm ready, like, alright, let's get in the message here.

SPEAKER_02 19:42

Well, here's a three-minute song that goes six minutes. Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

Yeah, and I mean you'll have that too, and I'm not saying that can't happen where I go, but I ours is so choreographed and so that your schedule is. Yeah, I mean, they they just run through it and it's like, okay, there's your worship set. Yeah, here's your message, and then there are no songs afterwards. We just have canned music that comes in once we write out.

SPEAKER_02 20:04

Well, I get that in the fact that you have to be timed. Yeah. Because at our church there's three services. Both of your churches, there's two services, two, three services. So you've got to get people out to have parking spaces available to get new people in. I get, I get it. So you have to. Which goes back to the the a lot of times you see these pastors, they time their messages like we do at the banquet. You time the talks. Yeah. They make sure it's only within 22, 23 minutes. Yeah. I think the pastor at your church, Todd, told me one time, well, we gotta get it down to we only got 22 minutes to do it. After 22 minutes, people aren't really listening anymore. So they want to get in, get out.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

And they have the countdown clocks everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 20:48

Sure, and I'm sure that the the pastor sees it when he's where he's standing, he's looking back and sees it too.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

Our pastor makes note of us sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 20:55

Oh, I got that little, I got that little little time left. Oh, wow. I gotta hurry up and get this in. Yeah, yeah. So what are we doing wrong? What what has happened? Because I I have a certain feeling about the church now and music. I feel sometimes it's overdone, too loud, too. Lights, lights, unnecessary lights, fog machines. That's my opinion. Yeah. Now uh which you know, being a musician, that might be okay for you, but is the church the okay place to do that?

SPEAKER_01 21:30

Okay, here's here's where I differ from a lot of people. I don't need a rock concert on Sunday morning. I don't need to be blasted with I don't know how many decibels of sound when I walk on the door. I mean it's it's loud.

SPEAKER_02 21:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

I don't need the light show. I don't need the LED screens. My acid test is always saying, okay, we're a big church. I know this appeals to a lot of people, but let's kill the power on a Sunday. Morning and see how many people really are there to worship. Oh, I like that.

SPEAKER_00 22:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:04

I really like that. We're gonna go out in the foyer, or we're gonna go outside in the parking lot, and we're just gonna worship there. I really wonder how many people, and I'm not just picking on my church, I'm picking on a lot of churches. Yeah, sure. All of them. Yep. How many people would stay? Or would it be like, oh well, we can't have service today. Right. Yeah, you can. Yeah. Why are you there?

SPEAKER_00 22:23

You're there to worship God. We've all experienced the banquet, and uh that's one thing that I really have enjoyed with the banquet is that it's usually just a guitar and then it's voices. Yeah. I love that. I I love that form of worship. And that's how I feel that it should be because to me that's authenticity. Correct. Because you will hear the people singing versus it's easy to have really loud music and have somebody lip singing and really not doing anything and making it appear like they're they're doing something.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

I've heard churches, I had a sound guy was doing a job out in Crown Point last, it was not this past summer, it was one before. And the guy was bragging about how, well, we've we've got everything choreographed to tracks that I play in the background, and as soon as one of the musicians messes up, I click I mute them out and put the track in their place, it makes the difference. At that point, it's like, why is anybody even there? Yeah, yeah. I I just I it just I didn't say anything. I mean, it's like oh okay, that's cool if that's how you do it. Yeah. But it's like, man, that just I don't want that.

SPEAKER_00 23:29

With with the way that things are going now, why couldn't you just put a screen up, a big screen up on uh the uh people can do like AI stuff and just play the music and have uh you know be is it any different than live streaming to another location? No, no, which is what there are a lot of them do now.

SPEAKER_02 23:53

Yeah, yeah. Well, so I I love when the church says, let's do an acoustic. To me, it it brings it down, like you said, brings it down to another level. I think you it's more intimate when you bring it down acoustically. Yeah, yeah. I I'm not a big fan of the big production, you know, let's spend fifty thousand dollars for big screens and amp, big amps, and you know, electric. I mean, do we need seven electric guitars up there on the stage and big old drum set with uh fog machine going and lights? We don't need that.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

I've seen um a church that has rails now in the back for the um camera where it slams across the back to and I'm just like I wonder how much that thing costs. You know, just to say forty, fifty thousand dollars. Is it necessary?

SPEAKER_02 24:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

No. I mean, I don't think it is, personally.

SPEAKER_02 24:51

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 24:52

You know, and I and I say that, guys, I'm a musician. I'd love to go and be around the equipment and play and you know feel a nice kick drum in my chest and stuff like that, but I think there's a time and place for that. And I think we've become so enamored with this entertainment on Sunday morning.

SPEAKER_02 25:10

Yeah. So there's you've mentioned a good word, entertainment. Do we need entertainment at church?

SPEAKER_01 25:15

No. I don't think we do.

SPEAKER_02 25:16

Well, at some point, Todd was bringing this up to me earlier today. At some point, we needed entertainment, so we need to bring people in and entertain them. Well, as we've gotten away from the message because we're entertaining everybody with music and lights and show and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 25:31

And that's that's always my concern as a musician because I've been there. You know, I I used to sit there and I would have this PA gear. I mean, you guys know I used to do that. I'd go to festivals and run sound and stuff, but my excuse for getting bigger speakers was, well, the word of God should have impact. And that was just my excuse to run out and buy a bunch of junk you didn't need. And um uh yeah, the the word of God should have impact without any amplification.

SPEAKER_02 26:00

So so what happens next? I mean, we went from uh a guitar and uh not even a guitar, we went from piano and organ to add a couple of guitars, acoustic guitars, the next thing you know, you had a drum, now you're got the big blown-out production. What's next? Is our church is getting burned out with that? Is it I think so. And so what's next? What could be next?

SPEAKER_01 26:24

You know, John, it's a good question. I don't know. I don't I don't know if it's gonna end up coming full circle, you know, and we get back to overstick. Yeah, yeah, because we haven't had it in so long. Right. I don't know. Um and again, I'm not knocking churches, like I said, my church does it. They have a big production every Sunday morning. Right. I just don't I don't ever want that. And I like a like I was saying a bit ago, I even got to this point where the production was way more important than anything else. And it should never be that way. No, you know the focus is on God. Exactly. We need to worship that. The focus needs to be on Christ and Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Okay, the production should be something that enhances that, but never overshadows it. Right. And I think a lot of churches and even a lot of Christian musicians out and about in the music industry, the production and the CCLI licensing and the and the lights and the this and that, da da da that's all becoming so important that we're kind of losing track of why we're doing this. Why we're there, yeah. The why and the who as opposed to the process.

SPEAKER_02 27:35

I mean, I I love the music at the church. Oh, absolutely overdone a little too much, but that's my opinion. And it sounds like you kind of agree with that.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

Yeah, and it's coming from a musician who's done this for a long time. Yeah. Um, and you know, I love I I love church musicians. I'm not I don't ever I don't want anybody to hear this and think I'm not gonna be able to do that. Right, no, no, I don't think that I just don't want I don't want us to take this gift and say we're using it for Christ when in reality we're just using it to be rock stars in our church. Yeah. Because I see that too, you know. And I was there like I said, I'm not saying anything that I haven't already experienced, man. Right. I was there.

SPEAKER_02 28:14

Well, and it's one thing to to be a rock star in a church and maybe get that band to do things outside the church, record music and sell it. That's what they want to do? Do that. Sure. Go out and have concerts or whatever, but don't bring your concert into the church. I think that's it's kind of diluted the message.

SPEAKER_00 28:34

I think to, you know, they talk about, well, you know, being uh in that is is being um in a ministry, you know, in a ministry. So like I open up the gym for basketball on Tuesday and Thursday mornings. And you know, so we call that a ministry. Well, if that's all that I did and then attended church, then that's really not showing God to people through my my living, etc. Right, you know, and and so I I guess I'm I'm bad at this to where I judge sometimes, to where I look at people in the worship team and then wonder, well, I wonder what else, you know, are they doing? Which is meaning here I'm getting back to the performance-based thing of, you know, well, are they just playing and then going to church or what are they doing, you know? And but you know, because it's sort of like sometimes I see the the pastors not in the church worshiping beforehand, right? And then they're walking around and doing this, doing that, and it's well it goes back to another subject that I've you made me think of it.

SPEAKER_02 29:50

There's some worship leaders that are getting paid pretty good money to play music at the church. And you mentioned that most of the people that are singing or playing the instruments are not getting paid. They're there volunteering, yes. And it but yeah, yeah, a lot of money, and then it's it's kind of sad that we're we're doing that, but that's my opinion, and I'm gonna say there's no textbook about it. I know that the Bible tells us we should sing, praise the Lord, play our instruments, which is fine. I just think it's gotten carried away, we've made too much of it, but it's it's got an important part in worship.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

Well, I think they it's it's done to attract people. Yeah, really. It's it's about feelings. Let's make people feel good. Yeah, because uh I think that that's a lot of ways that people think that they've actually been saved, yeah, is because they had a good feeling while they were singing and I really enjoyed the music.

SPEAKER_02 30:45

How many times do you hear people come out of church and say that? Yeah. Oh, I really enjoy the music at this church. That's what brought me here. Okay, you got them in the door, but yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

And it's okay to. Sure. And we all agree on that, it's okay to, but that's not what its purpose is for or intended for. It's to give God praise.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

Yeah, yeah. Well, and if we if I might say real quick, as far as you know, I enjoy the music and I have a certain feeling when I listen to this music in the church, that's part of why it's so loud sometimes. Because you can get somebody to it gets very emotional when that music is loud and you feel the low end pumping and you feel that kick drum in your chest. I had this this wonderful experience. No, honey, you just had a loud concert. You know, that was all that was. I you know, maybe you did have an experience, but I that's it goes back to my saying this stuff all needs to enhance the worship, not take its place. And I know it can be done. I've I've done it before. Hey, you want to feel that kick drum a little more? All right, here we go.

SPEAKER_02 31:52

Man, we could talk for two hours on this. Yes, beautiful. But but thank you for joining us, Chuck.

SPEAKER_01 31:58

Well guys, thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_02 31:59

Yeah, yeah. I know it's quick in and out, but I thought, yeah, you know, that's a good subject to talk about. You're a perfect person to be here with us. Yeah, thank you so much. Appreciate it. Um, tie on close sound prayer. Sure.

SPEAKER_00 32:10

Dear Heavenly Father, we thank you for uh for this opportunity. We thank you for our dear friend and brethren Chuck. Um, we thank you for his insight. We thank you for his servanthood towards uh you with um with music and uh to honor you in that manner. And uh we thank you for the opportunity for us to talk about you and talk about your word, talk about uh things in church. Uh we just hope that uh it's it's a reflection of you. And uh most of all, we want to say thank you for your son Jesus and sending him for us. We love you. We pray this in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen.

SPEAKER_02 32:53

Thank you, everybody. Have a nice uh afternoon or wherever you're at, have a nice day. Thank you. God bless you. Thank you for listening to Anchorman Anchored by Grace Podcast. Please share, like, and listen each week right here on our website or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. Subscribe to our podcast and never miss a new episode. Reach out to us at AnchoredByGraceDuck.com. Thank you again from John, Bob, and Todd, your anchor man for Anchored by Grace.